The Opportunity Zone Expo Podcast

Cory Bilodeau - Serious Risks in OZ Investing, and How to Navigate Them

August 05, 2019 Cory Bilodeau Season 2 Episode 13
The Opportunity Zone Expo Podcast
Cory Bilodeau - Serious Risks in OZ Investing, and How to Navigate Them
Show Notes Transcript

What are the biggest risks OZ investors face? What should you as a smart investor or fund manager do to mitigate those risks. Tax attorney Cory Bilodeau guides us through the risks and rewards of OZ investing in this episode of The OZExpo Podcast.

Host: Jack Heald
Guest: Cory Bilodeau

Cory Bilodeau:

But I happened to just, I, I have a business background, all is like that. So, so tax just kind of came naturally to me.

Jack Heald:

Welcome back everyone to the OZExpo podcast. I'm your host Jack Heald . Joining me today is Cory Bilodeau , a lawyer with McLaughlinQuinn. Cory , it says that you are a partner at McLaughlinQuinn and lead the tax planning practice group. So welcome to the OZExpo podcast.

Cory Bilodeau:

Yes, thanks for having me.

Jack Heald:

It's good to have you . So real quick, let's just dive in. McLaughlinQuinn: What kind of law do you guys specialize in and how did you end up with them?

Cory Bilodeau:

Our firm is a, is a tax, I don't like to use the word boutique, but we're a tax law firm . Most of the lawyers here, and we have about 10 full time lawyers or tax attorneys who have some type of advanced degree in LLM in taxation or worked for the IRS at some point. And then we also have a few corporate lawyers who work in the transactional department and I work with them frequently on transactions. So we're pretty much a niche firm that focuses in the tax area, whether it's tax planning or or controversies before the IRS and the Department of revenue or division attacks, whatever the state taxing authority is. I ended up here because the partner who founded the firm, he actually has since passed away. He was kind of a mentor to me and I was working up in Massachusetts and he was working in providence. That's where his firm was located. And he had tried to hire me a number of times. I was working at a bigger firm at the time and a few times I didn't make the switch down here, but finally the timing just made sense. And I happened to come down here to providence where the main office is located and work with him. He passed away unexpectedly probably six months I started. And so we had a little bit of a transition, but t hat was a number of years ago. So we're on solid footing now.

Jack Heald:

All right, well I've got to ask you about these controversies before the IRS. Pick an interesting one and tell me the story.

Cory Bilodeau:

Oh, I mean there's, there's so many of them. I mean, I, I, I've had, you hear all sorts of stuff so that , so most of the time when we get the controversy matters, whether they're audit or collections matters, but most of the audits come to us when there , there's some hair on them and they're not, they're not really what I call paper audits , but we've had some that are a little bit crazy where, you know , some people had, have had foreign accounts and , and they actually have had second families overseas that had come to light as a result of the IRS or Treasury Department discovering these foreign accounts. So that happens. You hear some of that crazy stuff on that side. And as I said, most of those cases that come to us, they're already messy or have some hair on them . But that was one that was, that was kind of interesting.

Jack Heald:

The client wasn't too pleased about it. I can imagine you've got another wife and more children. How interesting. Yeah, exactly. All right, well, so, so let's talk about the genesis of, of your work in the opportunity zone. The program itself is only been around a little over 18 months now. Um, when did you first hear about it and how did it , h ow, how did you get started with it?

Cory Bilodeau:

Okay . I first heard about it when the tax cuts and jobs act was passed or, or was being , um, in the works of being passed. a nd, and so as, as the partner who runs the tax planning department, I have, my clients are people who are trying to minimize their taxes an d, and pay as little as possible. I always, I, I teach at the law school down here, th e, the federal income tax course. And I always told th e s tudents wo n't, I've never had a client come to me who asked me how to pay more in taxes. They always come to me asking, how do I pay less? And so as, as, as the partner in the planning department, you have to be on top of all that stuff and know what's out there and what are the opportunities for your clients. And in the past, as I mentioned, the partner who founded the firm had a numb, really built the firm with real estate clients because at one point he owned a 10 31 exchange qualified intermediary company and that developed a l arge real estate client base. So we have a lot of real estate clients, developers, investors, owners. And so that's how I heard of it. Kind of started to get myself up to speed on what was going on.

Jack Heald:

Well, is

Cory Bilodeau:

there like a, I mean, you're not, you're not expected to just read every new thing that comes tumbling out of the mouth of treasury. Are you? Or is there some sort of service that says, heads up tax lawyer guys, this stuff is coming. Surely there's somebody out there who keeps you at least says, hey, you ought to go look at this, or is that just got to do? Yeah . Oh , that'd be, it's part of it. I mean certainly it's certainly when you're in this, this field, you have to stay up to up to speed on everything. And yeah, I don't just go onto the Treasury website and start picking treasury regulations. We subscribed to another, a number of services that provide daily updates and those updates can be updates about pending legislation or new legislation or new treasury regulations that were issued or court cases that were decided. So you screen those every day and the ones that are interesting or that, that are relevant to your practice, you print dough and then you read them when you have some time or, or it could be, it could be relevant to something you're working on at that time. So that's, that's happened where you get, get a little news alert you look at, oh well that's , that's interesting. That's something I'm dealing with right now. So you print it out and read it and it comes in handy.

Jack Heald:

I have to think that so often th that that often there are just , um, Aaron dip. It is occurrences where you'll talk to somebody like going to the opportunity zone expo and you just happened to get into a conversation with somebody and find things out or pass pass things along. There's just so much that that has to be known. It just seems like it'd be an other utterly overwhelming task.

Cory Bilodeau:

It can. It certainly can be overwhelming. I think what's kind of funny is Nina Olson, who's the taxpayer advocate, she just retired. She's the only tax payer advocate we've ever had just printed out or she just produced a chart of the, of the Internal Revenue Code and the process. And really it's only the process from when you file a return and what happens after you file the return and how you go to appeals and collections and , and, and audits and the tax court. And I mean the thing's a complete mess and it doesn't even deal with the Internal Revenue Code and how you, how you actually prepare the tax return. So yeah, it can be overwhelming at times. I mean it's , it's a where a, as a small firm with 10 lawyers, we're probably task was a little bit more responsibility of learning than the bigger firms where you can have, you can have tax lawyers who just focus on partnerships or real estate or c corporations. Well . Well, you know, in our fields , our clients come to us most of the time because they don't want to the large firm rates, but they, they have an expectation of, hey, Geez , you guys, you guys can answer these questions. And most of the time we can. And if I always, when I deal with clients , if I can't, I'll refer them to the appropriate person.

Jack Heald:

Okay. Well let's talk about Opportunity Zone in particular. Um, you're a tax attorney so you're, you're going to be very well versed in the tax benefits of it. I'd still nevertheless like to hear just kind of a high level over you, your opinion about the program, what you thought of it when it first got started, how it's , h ow it has or has not met your expectations so far and how yo u're a dvising clients. And I'm really just talking, you know, le t's g et general stuff. We can't drill down too deep into the weeds on this.

Cory Bilodeau:

Sure. Well, I think when I first heard about the program , i t's a, it's a short code section. I don't think it's well written and it was really a situation where clients were staying on the sidelines. I think I had one client who dove in and actually we set up a fund who invested in real estate an d O pportunity Zone prior to the treasury regulations, the proposed regulations being issued. Everyone else wanted to wait until there wa s s ome additional guidance. So initially there was a lot of hype about the program but nobody really knew how it was going to work. I thought it was a good idea. I think it has a lot of potential compared to some of the other place based programs that have come and gone in the past and that are still in existence. For example, the new markets tax credit program, which is fairly successful program, but it's limited so it doesn't have scalability and you all, you have the government involved and treasury has to, has to certify the funds that get an allocation of the credit in that program. And this was really a program that the opportunities on program was really designed to let the private industry take off with it. And that's done through not credits, but through other tax benefits. There are, I think there are, I kind of, when I talk to clients, I say, look, there are really three main tax benefits. The first is deferral that if a client has a cap little gain in a particular tax year, let's just say it's 2019 they have the ability to defer that gain for a period of time. And that period at most is 2026 the gain that's deferred has to be picked up on the 2026 tax returns . So the first benefit is really the deferral. The second benefit is that there is an exclusion of that initial deferral of up to 15% of the deferred gains . Or use an example, if the client tax payer defers $1 million and they hold on to that investment for at least five years, that , so they take their million dollars, they invested in an opportunity fund, they hold on to that investment for at least five years, then they get a 10% exclusion of that million dollars. So, so at worse , they would report $900,000 of the million in 2026 if they hold on to it for seven years, there's an additional 5% exclusion. And so they would report $850,000 of the million. And so you've got that exclusion benefit. That's a, that's a nice benefit for taxpayers . It's a good incentive. So you've got the deferral, you have the exclusion. And then the third, which I kind of think of as the crown jewel of the whole program, that if the investment in the fond, our opportunity fund held for at least 10 years, then when that investment is sold, the taxpayer doesn't have to pay tax on the appreciation in the fund. So our example, we said, hey, the taxpayer had a million dollar capital gain invested into the fund. At some point they have to pick up that million dollars minus potentially 10% and another 5% and then if that million dollars grows to $10 million and that investment is sold, they don't pay any tax on the 10 million minus the million. So 9 million is shielded from income. So that's the, that's the crown jewel of the whole program. I've got a lot of calls on the program and I tell them, look, if you're not interested in a long term hold, this really doesn't make sense.

Jack Heald:

Yup . That's the consensus. So where do you see the holes that have yet to be addressed by Treasury?

Cory Bilodeau:

Uh , I mean, treasury has done a pretty good job. I think that the, the proposed regulations have , h ave covered much of the concern that that practitioners have or had with the program. I don't know of any specific, hol es in the program right now. I think that that more it's on the, it's on the economics of it, not necessarily with how the program works, how it's going to be administered. Um, th i ngs like that. I always tell the clie nts, lo ok, if you're thinking about this, the economics of the transaction have to make sense that you can't just focus on the tax benefits because if the investment goes to zero, you didn't get any tax benefit. So that doesn't make sense. You want, you want the whatever you're looking at as an investment to make sense economically and be viable long ter m . I think that's one, one of the areas that, that people who kind of were , so y ou did mostly clients about this have kind of stepped back and said, all right, well what are we looking at? Well , how would, what areas are we investing in? And you also have a lot of money chasing a limited, limited investment areas . The opportunities zones don't cover an entire state. They only cover 25% of the low income housing census tracked in a particular state. So in Rhode Island there are low income housing census tracks, and those , t hose areas are, are covered with opportunities zo nes, but only 25% of those areas. s o that's, that's kind of what I've seen. I don't know, you know, if there's anything specific related to the holes that exist out there, and frankly, I don't anti cipate tre asury, I originally, they said that they were goin g to i ss ue three sets of proposed regulations, I believe. And then they said, hey, we don't, we're not goin g to i ss ue anymore. tha t what we have now is really all we're going to have what they'll be, they'll come into a final form at some point.

Jack Heald:

Yeah. I've talked to a bunch of tax accountants and tax lawyers about this and the consensus is it's about as good as it's going to be. There might be some things that could be improved, but by and large, this is what we've got. They'll talk a little bit about the kinds of deals that you structure for your clients when it comes to, and , and I want it , I don't want to keep this focused on opportunity loans . How do you recommend, do they structure , um, these investments? Um, and what are , what are the viable options and what are the not so good options for putting together building?

Cory Bilodeau:

I think that there are really two tracks that these , t hese investments go down in the structure. The first is, are the funds that you see Morgan Stanley setting up and Goldman Sachs and those are your, those are your traditional offerings to the public. And you need to be a high net worth investor in order to get in there. And they're managed professionally and those are one side, and to me those ma ke s ense for people who don't want to be involved in the management, don't have the management expertise to run a fond and to ru n a s a real estate investment or a b usiness, whatever, whatever the fund is investing. An d s o that's ki nd o f o ne side. I don't deal on that side other than to review documents, offering documents that are produced by th e Morgan Stanleys a nd the an d t he Goldman, those types of places. I don't, I'm not setting anything up like that. I'm on the private side where my clients who are real estate developers have some type of capital gain and they want to take advantage of the program, the program and so in our you're not, what we're doing is in predominantly all the cases, we're using limited partnerships as the fund because most cases our our clients are setting up a fund to themselves for the, for the, they're their own, they're operating their fund , they're the only investor and we were not really comfortable using LLCs because what would happen if you had a transfer and you can solidated excuse me, you consolidated ownership and now all of a sudden you don't have a partnership. One of the requirements of these of this program is that the fund that that your taxpayers invest in has to be a partnership or it has to be a corporation, can't be a disregarded entity or, or something along like that. And that's a problem I think down not so much when the funds are initially formed, I can anticipate where these things are going to be formed. People are going to forget about them and eight years goes by and you might have new counsel involved or new CPA's and Oh, let's do some estate planning and let's transfer ownership to the spouse or whatever the case may be. And all of a sudden the fund terminates and you have a problem we have of using limited partnerships.

Jack Heald:

You mean let's, let's go into more detail on that because you're not the first person I've heard talking about this. And because I am not a lawyer , um, I feel like I only have a vague understanding of it. So if I structure the PR by structure, the initial fund as a disregarded entity and those, what are the , what are some disregarded indices? A single per a single owner LLC is one.

Cory Bilodeau:

Correct? Exactly.

Jack Heald:

Do you think it else ,

Cory Bilodeau:

um , that's pretty much it. I mean, you have a sole proprietor if you're just operating in your own name, but most people are not operating or owning real estate in their own name. They're either owning it in an LLC that's disregarded or in an LLC that has multiple owners and tax as a partnership.

Jack Heald:

Okay. So, so if I set it up that way as a disregarded entity, what are the, what are the potential liabilities I'm going to deal with going forward? One is that,

Cory Bilodeau:

the problem is if you set it up as a disregarded entity , it doesn't qualify. It doesn't qualify under the program because the fund has to be tacked as either a partnership or a corporation. If you have a disregarded entity, the fund doesn't qualify. It doesn't qualify as a fund that LLC

Jack Heald:

and that that's, that one's pretty simple. Now, somebody mentioned that , I , I , I don't remember who, but somebody mentioned that if you set up your fund as one of these other structures that that if it's, if you dispose of the property or the funds changes hands, that there's , there are potential problems there as well. But I'll be frank, I'm still blind . I don't understand it. I don't understand what has to happen from an ownership standpoint to protect the taxable advantages all the way through the tenured period.

Cory Bilodeau:

So there's, so I think what they're getting at is, let's use an example of a husband and wife have a capital gain event. They set up an LLC in which they each own 50% and and they invest their money into that LLC which goes out and maybe it invest in another partnership or corporation doesn't invest directly in property in an opportunity zone. And then a few years down the line the, the husband transfers his interest to the wife. Well now you've gone from a a multi owner LLC tax as a partnership to a single owner LLC that's disregarded, that's going to cause the fund to lose its status as an opportunity fund. And, and you, you would have to pick up the gain at that point that was deferred, those, those that, that husband and wife and and so there are, and so I think going back to what you were talking about with someone saying , hey, there are problems with transferring interests in the second set of proposed regulation . What happened is this, the code says that that the initial deferred gain that gets picked up on the earlier of when there's a transfer or a sale or I think it's as a sale or exchange of the fund interest or 2026 and people said, well what does that mean? And a lot of practitioners said , well what ? What can you transfer your , your interest in the fund to your kids or to your wife for or to a trust for the benefit of your kids. And in the conclusion was this, that the second set of proposed regulations identified a number of what they , the code , the regulations, call inclusion events and those inclusion events, trigger gain that's been deferred, could be a portion of the gain . But in any event, if there's an inclusion event, there's going to be a, a recapture of that deferred gains . So an example would be the husband and wife invest in the LLC and then the wife transfers her interest to the kids. My gift, that's an inclusion event. If that's done prior to 2026, that deferred gain, a portion of it will have to be picked up. So there's a, so there's some issues with what is an inclusion event and what can you actually do and not trigger the gain and have it picked up early.

Jack Heald:

Okay. I think I'm a little clear on that. So [inaudible] into that, that the deferred gain has to be picked up. Does that put the potential for the step up in basis and of 10 years? Does that put that at risk as well?

Cory Bilodeau:

It puts that risk, the, the s tep up in b asis on the initial ga me d eferral which happens, which happens, in that prior to 2026 I mentioned that 10 and, an d 5% step up as it relates to the, the exclusion after 10 years. The inclusion events don't specifically address that. They don't specifically address that, but the inclusion events relate only to the defe rred gam e. But I b elieve, and I have to go back and double check, but I believe you're not eligible for the, for the 10 year exclusion if you transfer your interest prior to the 10 years. But I'd have to go back and look at that.

Jack Heald:

Yeah , I would, I would assume as much on that regard, but I'm thinking of a situation, I'm stepping into this situation like you specified where the husband and wife are our joint partners in an LLC, one of them transfers ownership to somebody else, the original partner. I'm, I'm hoping guessing, assuming that the original partners , i n terest i s maintained and, una ttached and obs tructed up w ha tever your legal term is for that, that, that, that side of the partnership is still eligible. But I don't know how this stuff works. Good Lord. This is why we hire attorneys.

Cory Bilodeau:

Yeah. It's, you know, it's, it's a, it's a complicated , s ection and there's obviously a concern by Congress. Congress's started to look at this a little bit more closely because this was a, this was a section of the tax cuts and jobs act that was just, I don't want to say it was thrown in there, but it wasn't really talked about. It had been in the works for a long time. It h appened to get into this, this bill that passed an d c ongress is now sa ying, taking a step back sa ying, wait a minute, is the, because obviously the point of the program is to , is for capital to be relocated or invested in our opportunities zo nes. These are, these are lower income areas and Congress wants to make sure, is the program doing what it's designed to do and is it, is c apital being deployed into these areas where it's being where it's supposed to and, an d y ou know, I always say, an y t i me t here's some type of tax benefit or tax program, th ey're g oing to be unscrupulous, scrupulous people who come about and are trying to do things that they shouldn't do with the program. And in the en d I k ind of ru ined i t for everyone, but I, I think that they wa nt t o m ake sure, hey, is it working? Is it doing what it's supposed to be doing or is ca pital m oving to these areas in , in h elping these distressed areas? And that's part of what the program is designed to do.

Jack Heald:

Yeah. And I, it looks to me like, you know, if I was going to put together a pie chart of all the folks I've spoken with , um, I would say probably 75 to 80% of them are, are on the finance side one way or another. Either a , the folks raising the money or the folks putting together the funds or the folks advising on the phones. 25% are actually on the development side. Now , I don't know if that's representative of the entire industry itself, but that's been who might guests have been. And I would guess that the , the success rate for those kinds of projects is going to be probably about normal for any other type of development. Um, simply because there's some additional advantages and some initial list incentive to make it really work. And I think it's driving a lot of the more creative people to solve some of the problems that had seemed intractable in opportunities zones. So I , my , My expectation is that the graft and corruption won't be any greater in this than it than it is normally because I think there's a lot more focus on , o n it s s uccess. I think people are, you know, I have no question. There are lots and lots of folks very, very, int erested and intent on making sure thi s thing does what it was designed to do.

Cory Bilodeau:

I tend to agree. I don't know that there'll be any more fraud or whatever you want to call it in the area. I think it's, I think where you'll probably see it is more on the fund level where you have people raising money and not doing what they say they're going to do because it doesn't, you know, it doesn't take much to set up a fund and start advertising and marketing and you're supposed to comply with the securities rules like any other offering. But that's, that's where I would, I would anticipate there being some problems. I don't have any anecdotal evidence that there are problems currently, but I would think that's where it would be not so much on, on not so much on the operation of the Fund and how that works with the tax benefits cause they, they kind of are what they are. And so I think most people, at least the practitioners I talked to her are trying to make sure they understand the program, how it works, make sure they're complying with the rules because they're there. That's what they're , the point is of it. And they're not out there taking leaps and doing things they shouldn't be doing, at least in my experience with talking to other tax attorneys.

Jack Heald:

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what, I have spoken to some genuinely very talented, very gifted, very passionate people who are making significant differences in the communities where it's needed most. I'm building quite a portfolio of things folks. And I personally deeply optimistic about it. You know, it's going to take time and it's going to take patients . And I think a brilliant aspect of the program is this 10 year hold period. It , it's , it automatically excludes folks who are just in it for the quick and dirty gains. It's gonna require the patient kind of capital, but it's gonna that patient capital is necessary to , to turn these communities around. Anyway, so I'm, I'm,

Cory Bilodeau:

and yeah, and I think you're right. I think that that 10 year hold, I've heard people say, oh, this is just to give away to the rich. And it's not, it's not, I mean, there's obviously our tax benefits that , that are driven by people who generate capital gain, but in the end to maximize the tax benefits, the 10 year holds . I mean, you've got to have your capital locked though for a long time. So there's a lot of capital risks there for investors. It's not a, hey, let's invest in, keep our money locked up for two years, and then we're out. And if you want to take advantage of the benefits, you've got to have a lot of capital risk and you've got to have a longterm horizon. And I think that makes sense. And it's probably the right amount of time for people to, to invest in for their money to be locked up. s o it's a, I think you're right on that front.

Jack Heald:

Yeah, I , I've, there's going to be people who've tried to take advantage of it. There always are. But that 10 year hold the opportunity to defer, to eliminate all your capital gains is going to be incredibly attractive to a very small set of people who have the patience to do that. And I think we're going to look back 11 years from now and say, wow, this was a, it's just an amazing program. There'll be a whole nother story . It

Cory Bilodeau:

was that I , I think that, you know, one of the most interesting, and this is I was listening to another podcast and it was either Bloomberg or tax notes, I don't remember. And there was someone on who runs a group, I don't want to call it a think tank, but, but something that has focused on these, we call place based programs for , for encouraging capital into lower income areas in the northeast. We have a lot of mills, former mills on, on rivers that are now abandoned. And this particular gentleman said the most interesting , p ro, bus iness he has seen come out of this is farm raised salmon in t he se mills. And these are mills are mostly located in opportunity zones. They are located near wat er. They 're ide al. And I think that's fairly interesting. And the se areas, they need jobs, they're lower income, they're distressed and they've been down for a long time. And so hopefully the program brings the needed capital, not just to real estate. I think that was, that was one of the initial conc erns by people. If most of the money was flowing into real estate and not operating businesses, but I've gotten some calls recently from potential clients who are looking at looking at starting operating businesses in o pp ortunities zones. And those are, I think those are just as important because those create jobs and the areas that need them.

Jack Heald:

Yeah. That , that's the real key. It's not the, it's not the building, it's, it's the activity happening in those buildings. Sustainable activity that can go on for decades. That's where, yeah. Well Corey , I'm good . I want to hear just a little bit about this , t his whole Boston connection that yo u g ot. I looked at your, your biography. Looks like you went both to BC and to be you with, I c an't tell if it's a detour or an origination at Roger Williams College, which I assume is R ho de Island. Is that right?

Cory Bilodeau:

That's right. So I went to Undergrad at Boston college and I got a degree in business management and a concentration in finance. And then I worked for a little bit after that. And the financial services industry decided that I wanted to go to law school. And I went to law school at Roger Williams School of law where people sometimes ask me, well, how did you, how do you become a tax attorney? And it just kind of fell into it. There happened to be a professor who was a tax warrior and he taught a number of tax courses in law school. And I enjoyed it. And he said, well why don't you get your LLM and texts ? I mean, I didn't even know what that was. And so after law school I went right to be used school of the loss of Boston University School of law to get my LLM in taxation. And so yes, I went to both be you in BC.

Jack Heald:

Do you it , some people give me a hard time about that. Do you have a j d as well as an LLM? I do. Oh good Lord. How am I

Cory Bilodeau:

j ds from Roger Williams, the Yellow Lemons firm from Boston University

Jack Heald:

years . Were you in college?

Cory Bilodeau:

Okay , so college of was for law school with three and then the LLM was one.

Jack Heald:

Well, okay, so it's just one more year.

Cory Bilodeau:

It's one more year. It's two semesters full time. So it was a , it's a fall, spring semester if you go full time.

Jack Heald:

So when you went to, when you went to law school, you didn't have tax law in mind. What were you thinking?

Cory Bilodeau:

Uh , I wanted to be a prosecutor. Oh really ? Yeah, that was a , it's a, that was what I wanted to do. Unfortunately, the economics of that weren't really going to work because law school is expensive and and prosecutor you don't, you don't make much money, at least initially in the public service. And it didn't really work out for me. I did clerk at the Attorney General's office in Rhode Island during law school, but I happened to just, I, I have a business background all as like that. So tax just kind of came naturally to me.

Jack Heald:

Corey , I appreciate this, that you , you actually answered a question that had come up in a previous conversation that once I got to thinking about it, I realized I did more detail and a what what you gave me in terms of the disposition of a partnership LLC. I think our listeners are really gonna appreciate that. Folks. Want to get ahold of you at McLaughlin Quinn ? w hat's the best way for them to do that?

Cory Bilodeau:

Uh , either email Mae , which my email is on our website, which is just a mcglothlin quinn.com or my direct number, which is (401) 655-2203

Jack Heald:

very good and I will remind our listeners, you can get that information off the podcast website as well. Well Corey, I appreciate you taking the time with us today. Before I let you go, if you've got any last words for us,

Cory Bilodeau:

I appreciate you having me on and I think that hopefully there are good results with this program. It's been a, it's been interesting since it's since it originally was part of the tax cuts and jobs act. I think a lot of people have high hopes that it's going to work and because if it doesn't, I think it'll be a long time before we see another program like this. I think the last one before, this was during President Clinton's administration. So that's how long it takes a while to get these programs going, so hopefully it's successful

Jack Heald:

long time to get them going and even a longer time to get them stopped. Correct. On behalf of Corey Bilodeau , I am Jack Heald for the Posey Expo podcast. Thanks for joining today. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you're updated every time we have a new release come out that happens several times a week and we will talk to you next time.